Jason taps the side of his leg in a nervous gesture, to the rhythm of a random tune in his head. He'd try to hide how nervous the subject is making him but he's pretty sure she'd be able to pick on that, so why bother?
"I kill people. I'm not going to stop, I think some people deserve to die. What happened to Babs is one of the reasons I think prison isn't enough.
He purses his lips in thought as he follows her. This is... well, weird. Usually people disagree with him or they think someone has to do the dirty job too. Mostly the later, because of the crowd he usually goes with and how ruthless he can get. Disagreeing but not fighting him on it is a new one and he still has to decide if he likes it.
“You know he hurt Barbara, too. Even after that, you don't agree the world would be better off?”
"When I was eight years old, I knew with absolute certainty that I was supposed to kill a man," Cassandra says, not easily but smoothly. It's not that this is simple or that the words come freely, but it's something she's thought about. Something saved up inside of her.
"I knew it until the moment I ripped his throat out. And then in that moment, I knew that I was wrong."
She looks back at him.
"I was made by a man who wanted to create the perfect weapon and a woman who wished to create an heir who could kill her, both of them accomplished murderers. I was raised and trained by the League of Assassins with the intention of creating the ultimate fighter, someone who had all of their skills and talents and fighting forms in one person. There are people who would look at that and say that there was nothing in me that could lead to anything but death."
She tilts her head.
"I don't know why I knew in that moment. I don't know where that feeling came from, how I knew. I don't know what made me run. I don't know if my firmest belief will be turned on its head by something tomorrow."
She turns back to their path.
"But I know there's no way to unkill people. Not one that will bring them back the same way the left. And I know that the world is strange, that there's no telling what tomorrow brings.
"I hate the man who hurt Barbara. Who hurt you. Who's hurt Batman. I hate him, and if I heard that he died tomorrow, I would see justice. I would feel safer. I would know that you and Barbara and Bruce all feel incredible relief.
"But I won't kill him. Because I know how much I don't know. I know how flawed I am. And I know how strange the world can be."
She looks up at Jason again.
"If you're sure, then you should follow your heart. But I can never be sure."
Cass always makes him feel awkward when this subject comes up, so he tries to avoid it. But in this case he walked right into it. He doesn't regret what he did and never will, he doesn't think he's going to stop any time soon because someone has to get rid of those who deserve it. But he has to admit that knowing someone who was made to be a murderer turn her back on that and make her own path does put things into perspective.
“He'll always hurt people. It was me, it was Babs, it was Gordon and I'm just naming those because we know them. Count all the lives he's ruined outside our circle, how many have died or worse.
So yes, I am sure. I may be flawed but I refuse to let people get hurt because of some shitty moral code I didn't choose.”
"And if he dies as a martyr and only inspires a dozen copies?" is her answer. "Is the purpose of his death to bring justice to the pain he's caused or to prevent further damage?"
She holds up a hand.
"I don't know. I ask the questions, but I don't know the answers. No one does. Not really."
Then she turns to look at him.
"If you believe that, and I think you do, then I won't tell you not to do what you believe. You have to live what you choose, what you believe. For good or for bad. I won't look down on you for it. I just believe differently."
It surprises him, that there's no pause. But Cass isn't like Bruce, sticking the moral conduct out of some need to pretend there's a part of him that's sane. Cass made a conscious decision. One Jason doesn't exactly agree with: if there's copies of the joker then it's their fault for following him, not Jason's. And he'd get rid of them too. But Cass is finding a compromise, so Jason can meet her half way.
"Especially here. It's not like I can do anything in here, anyway."
If it ever came down to it back at home, she would fight him. She would fight him over the life of a villain, just as she would fight anyone else over a life. She would fight him and she would win or--
She would win. That is her determination. Just as he would know in his heart that he would win. And she knows that equally. They both believe and they both live their beliefs, give their all to them. But she can't tell him he's wrong. She can't tell him that the Joker should walk free or even live caged. She can't, because she knows what monsters are and she knows how resilient they can be. She knows her own father will never stop and she knows that she will always stop him but never how he wants.
The world is complicated and wonderful and terrible. She believes that too.
That's why she holds out a hand to Jason and offers him a tiny smile.
He squeezes her hand, looking at her with a grin. He's good at mood-switching, it's how he lives most of his life. And he's aware this is a discussion where the best they can hope for is agree to disagree. Which is, honestly, a lot more than the rest of the batfamily gives him so he'll take it.
"What kind of flavors do you like? Spicy? Savory? I'm a sucker for anything sweet."
Jason rolls his eyes. Between Tim and Dick Jason had thought Alfred had a hard time when it came to feeding the baby bats, but apparently Cass also went with whatever she could get into her mouth. And Jason, who didn't have the Wayne fortune was the one who spent actual money on food.
Figures.
"Sweet it is then. But Alfred isn't here so what are you exactly eating?"
"When I was a child, I ate whatever I could find: meat raw from the dead animal, food from garbages, plants that didn't make me sick. Alfred's food is... pretty. And smells good."
She shrugs.
"I've been eating sandwiches from cafes. And pastries."
Jason nods, reaching to scratch the back of his neck as he looks away.
"I was... brain damaged, for a while. Don't remember much. Doesn't matter- point is I went through that too. I just have the luck to be able to forget it because my memories are foggy." A shrug. "But when I get to cook, I like to do it.
Helps you be healthier, too. We use a lot of calories in our... kind of life."
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
"I didn't need to know for myself."
no subject
"I kill people. I'm not going to stop, I think some people deserve to die. What happened to Babs is one of the reasons I think prison isn't enough.
How does that make you feel?"
no subject
"Sad. Worried. For you. Here."
And she lets her hand stop an inch before touching his chest, but it's over his heart.
no subject
"That sounds a lil bit like pity, princess."
no subject
"Pity would imply I don't think you can change. You could, if you wanted to. You don't want to. You make your choice. The same way I do."
She pulls her hand away.
"We'll never know for certain which of us is right. We can only act as we believe. But we're both trying."
She starts walking, not away from him but towards their destination.
"I don't have to agree with you to like you. Even about that."
no subject
“You know he hurt Barbara, too. Even after that, you don't agree the world would be better off?”
no subject
"I knew it until the moment I ripped his throat out. And then in that moment, I knew that I was wrong."
She looks back at him.
"I was made by a man who wanted to create the perfect weapon and a woman who wished to create an heir who could kill her, both of them accomplished murderers. I was raised and trained by the League of Assassins with the intention of creating the ultimate fighter, someone who had all of their skills and talents and fighting forms in one person. There are people who would look at that and say that there was nothing in me that could lead to anything but death."
She tilts her head.
"I don't know why I knew in that moment. I don't know where that feeling came from, how I knew. I don't know what made me run. I don't know if my firmest belief will be turned on its head by something tomorrow."
She turns back to their path.
"But I know there's no way to unkill people. Not one that will bring them back the same way the left. And I know that the world is strange, that there's no telling what tomorrow brings.
"I hate the man who hurt Barbara. Who hurt you. Who's hurt Batman. I hate him, and if I heard that he died tomorrow, I would see justice. I would feel safer. I would know that you and Barbara and Bruce all feel incredible relief.
"But I won't kill him. Because I know how much I don't know. I know how flawed I am. And I know how strange the world can be."
She looks up at Jason again.
"If you're sure, then you should follow your heart. But I can never be sure."
no subject
“He'll always hurt people. It was me, it was Babs, it was Gordon and I'm just naming those because we know them. Count all the lives he's ruined outside our circle, how many have died or worse.
So yes, I am sure. I may be flawed but I refuse to let people get hurt because of some shitty moral code I didn't choose.”
no subject
She holds up a hand.
"I don't know. I ask the questions, but I don't know the answers. No one does. Not really."
Then she turns to look at him.
"If you believe that, and I think you do, then I won't tell you not to do what you believe. You have to live what you choose, what you believe. For good or for bad. I won't look down on you for it. I just believe differently."
She pauses then before looking up at him.
"Can you like me given what I believe?"
no subject
It surprises him, that there's no pause. But Cass isn't like Bruce, sticking the moral conduct out of some need to pretend there's a part of him that's sane. Cass made a conscious decision. One Jason doesn't exactly agree with: if there's copies of the joker then it's their fault for following him, not Jason's. And he'd get rid of them too. But Cass is finding a compromise, so Jason can meet her half way.
"Especially here. It's not like I can do anything in here, anyway."
no subject
If it ever came down to it back at home, she would fight him. She would fight him over the life of a villain, just as she would fight anyone else over a life. She would fight him and she would win or--
She would win. That is her determination. Just as he would know in his heart that he would win. And she knows that equally. They both believe and they both live their beliefs, give their all to them. But she can't tell him he's wrong. She can't tell him that the Joker should walk free or even live caged. She can't, because she knows what monsters are and she knows how resilient they can be. She knows her own father will never stop and she knows that she will always stop him but never how he wants.
The world is complicated and wonderful and terrible. She believes that too.
That's why she holds out a hand to Jason and offers him a tiny smile.
"We should get our food now."
no subject
He squeezes her hand, looking at her with a grin. He's good at mood-switching, it's how he lives most of his life. And he's aware this is a discussion where the best they can hope for is agree to disagree. Which is, honestly, a lot more than the rest of the batfamily gives him so he'll take it.
"What kind of flavors do you like? Spicy? Savory? I'm a sucker for anything sweet."
no subject
"I used to eat a lot of cereal and whatever Alfred would leave in the 'fridge for me. What I can get at cafes."
She ticks her finger over at Jason.
"Sweet. Definitely."
no subject
Figures.
"Sweet it is then. But Alfred isn't here so what are you exactly eating?"
no subject
"When I was a child, I ate whatever I could find: meat raw from the dead animal, food from garbages, plants that didn't make me sick. Alfred's food is... pretty. And smells good."
She shrugs.
"I've been eating sandwiches from cafes. And pastries."
no subject
"I was... brain damaged, for a while. Don't remember much. Doesn't matter- point is I went through that too. I just have the luck to be able to forget it because my memories are foggy." A shrug. "But when I get to cook, I like to do it.
Helps you be healthier, too. We use a lot of calories in our... kind of life."